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Multiverse theories


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#1 tsarofhvalfyurden

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 01:53 AM

Do you have any theories about the connection with other dimensions? Whether it be mirrors, or wormholes, or anything else. Just keep it positive and no hating on people's theories.

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#2 Jason

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 02:29 AM

Theories? Theories should be based on scientific evidence, otherwise they're kind of pointless theories, or just for fun. I never usually take a 'just for fun' stance when it comes to beliefs about reality, though.

 

Dimensions... an interesting topic indeed. What is a dimension? Some people view it as sort of another 'world', as a parallel world or something. I wouldn't view it that way, I would view it as components of the world. For example, 2D includes 1D but extends in another dimension. 3D includes 2D but extends another dimension. But 2D exists in 3D, and 1D exists in 3D. 

 

I'm not sure how mirrors or wormholes apply in this way. The connection is that, if there are more dimensions than 3, than the 3rd is a component of those dimensions (as are the 2nd and 1st) but those dimensions extend farther.

 

One could view it with the balloon analogy. You could consider a balloon having a 2D surface and a 3D volume inside of it. And suppose some creatures lived within the 2D realm of the surface, and could not see inside the volume of it. They could only see the 2D surface they're a part of. So... would they have any awareness of what happens within the 3D zone? Things get tricky at this point. Sure, the 2D surface could be touched by something on the inside. 

 

The analogy falls short a bit in that way. But I think that may be because the idea is flawed - having a creature only live in 2D when there's a 3D seems odd, doesn't it? How could that be? 

 

I'd wish to argue that the highest dimension that exists is the one in which everything exists, because every other dimension creates it and allows it to be how it is.

 

So my personal opinion is that this is what we have and that's it. But it's an interesting topic.


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#3 tsarofhvalfyurden

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 02:36 AM

All good points, although in reality 1D and 2D are physically impossible. This is because 1D is height or width (i cant remember) but has no depth, which is only an idea because no matter what you do, it will always have some depth because if molecular stuff. Same goes for 2D. 3D is theoretically possible, but currently does not exist since the fourth dimension (included in 4D) is time and we all know time is everywhere and you cannot get rid of it although there are also theories pertaining to time but I personally dont know them. We currently exist in 4D with Width Height Depth and Time all enacting on one another. But that does not mean in some other parallel universe (of which are infinite for every single possibility ever, in my personal belief) that 3D, 2D, and 1D dont exist. Although if you were to take a comical stance, 1D does exist and a large portion of the teenage girl population obsesses over them.

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#4 ▒AJ▒

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 02:43 AM

This is semi-related:

 

I was thinking about how a 4th dimension could work.  The way I imagine it is this.  Say the universe was 2 dimensional.  Also say that just like in this universe, matter (2 dimensional matter) cannot vanish or appear to or from nothing.  

 

Now let's view an interaction with a 3d object in this 2 dimensional universe.  The 3d object could pass through the 2 dimensional universe.  From the point of view from inside the 2 dimensional universe, you could only observe a 2 dimensional cross section of this 3 dimensional object at any given time as it passes through.  This object would be different than everything else in the 2d universe though, as it would appear to lose and/or gain mass as it passes through.  Think of a ball passing through a sheet of paper if that was possible.  The parts of the ball on the same plane as the sheet of paper would appear to be a circle that appears as the ball touches it and grows, and then shrinks back to nothing.  This would defy the condition that I put on the 2d universe of matter not being able to appear or disappear, and that is the only way of knowing that the object is 3d.

 

So now all we have to do is take a step up from this.  A 4d object in our 3d universe would appear to gain and lose mass while changing shape.  No such objects have been observed, so I think it's safe to say that interaction between our dimension and any higher dimensions is impossible.

 

Another thing to add to this.  Objects in our universe are actually mostly empty space to begin with.  A hydrogen atom is 99.9999999999996% empty space.  If 3d objects are mostly empty space, then when they pass through a 2d plane, any 2d observers on the 2d plane would barely be able to detect it.  Perhaps the same is true for 4d objects in 3d space, and that's why we can't see them.


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#5 NinROCK3T

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 03:21 AM

I believe there could be, but it's unlikely. As for actual 4D, I can't even begin to think about that! 2D to 3D is such a phenomenal difference, I don't think humans could have an idea of what a fourth dimension would be! :o
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#6 tsarofhvalfyurden

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 04:05 AM

As I said, we live IN the fourth dimension. The fourth D is time. And in a 2D world watching a 3D world pass through it wouldnt happen kuz the fourth dimension is time. 4D and higher are the only things that really exist.

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#7 NinROCK3T

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 04:52 AM

^ that makes no sense at all.
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#8 Jason

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 05:45 AM

All good points, although in reality 1D and 2D are physically impossible. This is because 1D is height or width (i cant remember) but has no depth, which is only an idea because no matter what you do, it will always have some depth because if molecular stuff.

 

 

You've got the wrong perspective on it. I'm talking about what makes everything, including atoms. Each atom is composed of 3 dimensions, on a very small scale. 

 

3D is theoretically possible, but currently does not exist since the fourth dimension (included in 4D) is time and we all know time is everywhere and you cannot get rid of it although there are also theories pertaining to time but I personally dont know them.

 

I wouldn't think of 'time' as a dimension. Time is kind of a human creation. Stuff exists... and it keeps existing. Because what would make it just disappear out of existence? Without something to make it disappear out of existence, it will keep existing. "Time" has no influence here, things keep existing because nothing removes them from existence. Time is used to keep humans organized and help them communicate better. 

 

But that does not mean in some other parallel universe (of which are infinite for every single possibility ever, in my personal belief) that 3D, 2D, and 1D dont exist. Although if you were to take a comical stance, 1D does exist and a large portion of the teenage girl population obsesses over them.

 

 

I mean, we could say that alternate universes exist. But there's really absolutely no reason to believe that. In other words, it's kind of pointless to believe it. Maybe. Maybe anything.

 

As far as the comedy piece there, you'll have to explain that one as I'm no good with jokes... literally.

 

As an aside, has anyone checked out that Fourth Dimension app in the app store by Drew Olbrich? Pretty interesting, actually. AJ's post made me think of it.


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#9 tsarofhvalfyurden

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 10:54 AM

For the joke, there is a british boy band called One Direction that has a fanbase of mostly young teenage girls and they are commonly reffered to as 1D haha
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#10 Michigander1

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 11:17 AM

Maybe Dark matter and dark energy are 4D objects. But probably not
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#11 Vuenc

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 11:35 AM

I think I already read about time as a fourth dimension in H.G.Wells "The Time Machine", anybody knows this?

#12 Zora Marslink

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 02:14 PM

Time is not man made. The measurement is, like the measurement for distance. Time is point a to point b in the line of existence as distance is point a to point b on a plane(not exactly right. Don't remember the term for a 3-D area). Time can be manipulated.

As for time being a fourth deminsion it really depends on what meaning of the word deminsion you are using. A fourth deminsional shape has an extra "depth". They don't exist for real but can exist as an idea.(Point of this is the the sides of a shape has hardly anything to do with multiverses) As for the other meaning which is intended on this thread (or other meanings...) I cannot point them them out because I do not know all the meanings of the word deminsion.

Last thing: Anti-matter is matter with an opposite charge. Opposite matter is the opposite of matter. What is dark matter?
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#13 NinROCK3T

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 03:14 PM

Maybe wormholes are 4D...


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#14 Kewlguy777

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 04:31 PM

no people, 4d is holograms!

1d: nothing

2d: flat

3d: depth

4d: hologram(nintendo will make it next)

5d: movies and games caracters in real lif

6d: you inside a game world


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#15 BrixXx

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 04:39 PM

I think I love 5D and 6D. Awwww Mienshao I want you in real life //u//w//u//


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#16 Jason

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 07:08 PM

Time is not man made. The measurement is, like the measurement for distance. Time is point a to point b in the line of existence as distance is point a to point b on a plane(not exactly right. Don't remember the term for a 3-D area). Time can be manipulated.

 

 

Define "manipulated"? Because I haven't yet seen very good evidence for this. But maybe you know something that I don't.

 

I believe that what you mean by manipulated is simply an effect of brain perception, and nothing to do with the world outside of our brains. Do recall that our brains make everything we perceive. We know nothing outside of them.

 

Our brains can make us believe many things :)



#17 Zora Marslink

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 07:24 PM

If one object moves very fast time "slows" for the object. Experiments have been done for this using pocket watches and lab rats. This is called time dilation and you look it up easily online.

 

One last thing. I am not referring to the phenomenon where it feels like time slows or speeds up. 

 

Edit: Also our brain doesn't make us believe things because the brain IS us...


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#18 Vuenc

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 07:44 PM

Theory of relativity by Einstein:
http://en.m.wikipedi...y_of_relativity
Not only the time is slowed down for a moving object, also its length shrinks for an outside observer.
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#19 Jason

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 08:52 PM

Time dilation... 

 

In the theory of relativitytime dilation is an actual difference of elapsed time between two events as measured by observers either moving relative to each other or differently situated from gravitational masses.

 

First thing I note here is the "as measured by observers", this is making me think about brain perception right off the bat. What does it mean, 'measured by observers'... how does an observer measure something, exactly?

 

An accurate clock at rest with respect to one observer may be measured to tick at a different rate when compared to a second observer's own equally accurate clocks. This effect arises neither from technical aspects of the clocks nor from the fact that signals need time to propagate, but from the nature of spacetime itself.

 

It doesn't explain how this relates to 'space-time' as opposed to simply brain perception, it only blatantly states it. A clock is just a mechanical device that has moving parts, it doesn't have any connection to 'time' by any means. This sounds just like the 'slowed down objects' mentioned above, and not related to clocks necessarily.

 

The laws of nature are such that time itself (i.e. spacetime) will bend due to differences in either gravity or velocity – each of which affects time in different ways.

 

This I actually find quite interesting. The idea that gravity, as Einstein stated it, is sort of misleading. The idea that gravity is actually the bending of this 'space-time' he calls it, this fabric of everything and that leads to its properties. 

 

​As I keep reading this, though, I find that I agree with what the article is saying. I think that we have different perspectives on this word "time". I think that these theories could work out well without using the word 'time' and just referring to the bending of matter and how matter behaves. Time is nothing but a measurement. 

 

So basically, I'm going to say that these differences in 'time' are the result of brain perception of matter behaving what we would call 'strangely', perhaps bending or changing size. 

 

I'd love to read more on the matter, though, because it's an interesting one. I'll be sure to when I find more time.

 

One last thing. I am not referring to the phenomenon where it feels like time slows or speeds up. 

 

But you must be. That's all we know... 

 

Edit: Also our brain doesn't make us believe things because the brain IS us...

 

Technically, when we say "we", we're referring to the very small conscious parts of the brain. Most of the brain is subconscious or unconscious, and we have no control over it. It can influence our conscious perception, though. Therefore "it can make us..." means "the unconscious areas can make the conscious areas...".



#20 Ze German Potato

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 09:05 PM

I think there are more universes on yhe other sides of black holes




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