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#41 Dblcut3

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 03:27 AM

Just because I sad live doesn't mean he has a normal human life that's just weird to say that I cant stop laughing. READ THE BIBLE MY FRIENDS OR ELSE I'm so sorry what will happen when you meet death. give reasons all you want I'm not listening cos I'm going to be strong in Christ and never change but the only request is become a christian

Youll learn...

 

And I put myself as a 4 and a half to 5 even though Im a Christian



#42 Dblcut3

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 03:30 AM

Okay, then... You've gone quite off the deep end here. I feel that if I went into the actual reasoning behind your claims you would take them in vain and simply move on. If you feel I should, and want to broaden your understanding, please say so - we would be happy to help. 

 

But I can't resist this bit here... No, the Bible is not factual. Whatsoever. Reading it further will broaden only my knowledge of the religion that is Christianity. Not of the world in which we live (as though it is a basis to know exactly what happens once we die). 

 

Also - if "being strong in Christ" means not using logic and reason, and if it means that you are choosing to never change and not listen, then I want no part of this Christ of yours. 

 

OH - one more thing - apparently you don't read too much of that Bible of yours, because in 1 Peter 3:15 it reads: "But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect." Interesting; sounds to me like the Bible says you should gracefully answer our questioning and help us to understand what you supposedly do, not run off as though you are being more strong in Christ by doing so.

 

(Note: sorry for the extra post, he posted as I was writing the above.)

True about the Peter 3:15 thing 

 

No to the not factual, as the bible does have lots of historic events in it that have happened, but it doesnt even give much info on the "Creation"



#43 Dblcut3

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 03:35 AM

I saw a government petition that was petitioning the government to stop teaching evolution in schools because it's "wrong". That kind of thing angers me a lot. It's one thing, as you said above, to believe in something yourself. Believe whatever you want to believe in. But it's another thing to try to make it so that other people have to share your belief without having a choice, to block out the scientific data and force them to be uninformed.

 

How bothersome.

Right, I believe that even in Christian schools they should teach both sides. I think its the right thing to do about all of this.



#44 Jason

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 04:10 AM

No to the not factual, as the bible does have lots of historic events in it that have happened, but it doesnt even give much info on the "Creation"

 

The bible does have some "true" events in it, but there are parts that are simply untrue in it. And if one part of it is untrue, it's sort of not the "truth telling" book anymore. It's more of a partial nonfiction and partial fiction book.



#45 Dblcut3

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 04:11 AM

And also Ill give my story:

 

All my life I was raised as a hardcore go to church all the time type Christian. After a while of that and more bible studying in my Catholic schools I thought, you know some of this just doesnt add up right.  Where the hell did God come from? How is he always there magically? I believe that a God may exist, but honestly I dont like getting caught up in all of this religion. I try my best, thats what matters. I don't like athiests that hate Christians, because I think we should be able to believe what we want. 



#46 Jason

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 04:27 AM

I don't have problems with people who believe in things that aren't real. Though I don't understand how someone can believe in something that isn't real (I'm, personally, not even capable of it). I only have a problem when people try to make others believe in things that aren't real as well.



#47 Dblcut3

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 06:21 AM

Well, now I want to bring up some Christian supporting points that keeps me from being Atheist. Heres one that stands out to me:

 

Incorruptible Bodies: Some saints such as St. Bernadette in this photo have been dead for centuries but their bodies remain as if they have just died. (http://www.fisheater...bernadette2.jpg) Whats the science there?



#48 Jason

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 07:04 AM

These links talk somewhat about incorruptible bodies, but they don't fully explain how it happens in some cases. On page 3, there are a bunch of arguments from skeptics geared at these bodies.

 

http://people.howstu...corruptible.htm [Page 1]

http://people.howstu...orruptible1.htm [Page 2]

http://people.howstu...orruptible2.htm [Page 3]

 

Let us assume that these "incorruptible bodies" are, indeed, legitimately preserved without scientific backing. My question to you is:

 

Why is it automatically attributed to god if we don't have an answer for it?

 

I ask this question because, as you should know, the vast majority of our knowledge today we didn't know even a few decades ago. Today, we can explain things that could not have been explained just a while back.

 

The point is, as we learn more, we can explain more. Just because we don't have an explanation now doesn't mean we turn to god. That's only a result of our limited knowledge. Remember, keep learning!



#49 Hunter

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 08:28 AM

And also Ill give my story:

 

All my life I was raised as a hardcore go to church all the time type Christian. After a while of that and more bible studying in my Catholic schools I thought, you know some of this just doesnt add up right.  Where the hell did God come from? How is he always there magically? I believe that a God may exist, but honestly I dont like getting caught up in all of this religion. I try my best, thats what matters. I don't like athiests that hate Christians, because I think we should be able to believe what we want. 

 

My Grandma was (is) an extremely religious person. I was with her a lot when I was younger; she had a tremendous impact on me in terms of God and the Bible and Christianity. She is why I was a Christian for so long in the first place. Eventually, though, you have to stop listening to your family drone on and on. You have to wake up and smell the roses, no matter what your family thinks or how your family thinks. 

 

I don't know of many atheists who hate Christians. I do, however, dislike Christianity. I do indeed feel that, although it is your right to practice it, society as a whole would be better off without religion of any sort. 

 

As for the bodies thing: it doesn't result in God being an automatic backing for this. I literally have little to no knowledge of this, but I can assure you it's not any god's doings. I say this simply because: if a body such as this one is something keeping you from atheism, then what are you waiting for? This is no proof for god. And even if God did want to do this... Why? What would this do for God? It's certainly no miracle. Now when one of these starts walking again - I'll reevaluate.

 

And now we're in yet another realm of atheism. The fact that in the supposed "Old Testament" days of God, there were terrible deeds done by God. And not only that, but everyone knew it was him. He had no issue with showing up and telling people stuff in front of everyone. Yet today - in a society where science is prevailing - "God" seems to think that he is okay to just stick around up in the clouds? Why? Oh sure, the Christians will say some crap like "he's testing our faith more than anything" or something. Really now? I never read that in your Bible. It seems to me that a quick pop-in by God - even for a few moments - would literally change the world over.  But no... the mysterious faith is more important than a supposed ever-lasting Hell.


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#50 Dblcut3

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 04:01 PM

Im not Atheist as some stuff keeps me from turning Christian or Atheist. 

 

Christian point:

 

http://www.christian...miracles-51263/  You always hear stuff like this, but with this story the brain wouldn't be able to come back. Though someone could easily lie about the minutes it was. 

Also:

And with the Heaven Is For Real book, most likely its a lie made up by the dad because when they interview him to ask about what it was like he just says "colorful"

 

 

Atheist Point:

 

If God was real, how come in the Old Testament he used to "speak" to his followers. If he spoke to them he can speak to us right? But he doesn't...

 

And why would God ask Abraham to sacrifice his only son? Obviously it was just a test of faith, but why would a loving God even mention that...


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#51 ARCHIEFARCHY

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 04:29 PM

 

Atheist Point:

 

If God was real, how come in the Old Testament he used to "speak" to his followers. If he spoke to them he can speak to us right? But he doesn't...

 

And why would God ask Abraham to sacrifice his only son? Obviously it was just a test of faith, but why would a loving God even mention that...

people claim that god speaks to them now like the pope but atheist's don't take this seriously. just a long time ago people where believed because there were no explanations for things that science can now explain.

and also god has killed lots of people in bible story's like Noah's ark



#52 Jason

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 07:15 PM

Here's the thing.

 

There are all kinds of little situations where people could attribute the event to a "miracle" and then attribute it to religion. However, this doesn't change the overwhelming evidence supporting god not being real. Even if there is one "miracle" (as it appears) event, that doesn't suddenly discredit all the other evidence supporting atheism.

 

Remember the point I made above. We don't know everything. Just because we don't have an answer doesn't mean we always won't have an answer. Sometimes we just need to learn more before we can get an answer. It doesn't mean god is responsible.

 

Remember, a long time ago... even lightning was attributed to a god, Zeus. Why was lightning attributed to a god? Because in those years, lightning wasn't understood scientifically. And what did those people do? They said: we don't have an answer for this, therefore it must be a god.

 

And we know now that isn't the case. And we can say this about so many other things as well.

 

People talk about speaking to god, but how easily could it simply be brain deception? All of our experiences and our senses are created by our brains. And we know our brains sometimes have processing errors. We hear sounds that weren't real, or see something that isn't real. Sometimes people get dreams confused with reality. And often, those people who "spoke to god" were nearly to the point of death from starvation. The brain doesn't function correctly when it's deprived of nutrition. Sometimes those people expected to talk to god, or felt as if they were capable of it, or begged for it so much in their minds, that they convinced themselves that it actually happened. In reality, it was only their own minds' creation.

 

And all these other topics... near-death experiences, after-death experiences... they aren't surprising to me. The brain is capable of creating a world completely different from our own. It creates this world we live in based on sensory input. But it has the power to create a world unlike our own, and experiences unlike those that come from this planet, and it has the power to deceive us completely. We are UNABLE to see the world at all, keep in mind.

 

We don't see the world. We see the images our brain created in response to visual stimuli. We don't smell the world, we don't hear the world or feel the world. All of these are created by the brain. We live within our brains and we know nothing outside of them. We easily fall victim to the deception our brains can create.

 

A lot of people have this idea that god is real in mind, or they want to believe that god is real, and then they look for every possible excuse they can find to believe in god. It's the wrong mindset. I think people should look at it in an opposite way: look at the world with the assumption god ISN'T real, and see if they can find anything that actually convinces them that he is. There's a big difference between those two methods.


Edited by Jason, 26 July 2013 - 09:31 PM.


#53 ARCHIEFARCHY

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 09:05 PM

I agree with you



#54 Hunter

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 09:06 PM

Jason makes great points, but at this time we're just reiterating. 

 

You need to simply accept that not everything will be understood - ever. But more than that you need to accept that this fact is okay, and realize that a whole lot more can be comprehended without guilt if you turn away from religion. 



#55 Dblcut3

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 12:58 AM

Um ya I think you are all right. Ill do some thinking about what I choose here  :huh:



#56 Sam

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 01:57 AM

Personally, I'd call myself a 6 and a half. I absolutely do not believe in "God" or likewise representations in other religions. I agree with Jason, and I also believe that any supernatural things can be explained by science, however we may not understand the science necessary to comprehend and explain any seemingly supernatural objects or beings at the time of their discovery, thus making them liable to be attributed by religion to a god of some sort.
Let it be clear that while I do not believe in religions, I am perfectly respectful of anyone that does, and will not judge them for doing so.
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#57 Hunter

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 02:20 AM

Thanks for the contribution, Sam. This is similar to how I - and many atheists - feel. A common respect for religion, while trying to distance yourself at the same time. 

 

And of course, as you said, science is ever-evolving; there's no need to fool around with religion even today, perhaps, but especially in the future. 



#58 Sam

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 07:58 AM

You're welcome.
Personally, I'm just disgusted at those people who DO judge people for their beliefs or race. The world would be a much better place if this wasn't so.
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#59 Jason

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 09:01 AM

There has to be some judgement based on beliefs... after all, people [choose] beliefs for a reason. As for race, though, I am also disgusted by that. It is true that different races have different qualities (though still are almost identical), but the fact is those differences aren't natural in the sense that they exist [because] the person is of that race. They exist because of human influence on that group of people and what those people choose to do as a culture or what other cultures choose to do to them. Those traits could apply to any race.



#60 Adam9812

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 01:25 AM

I would be a four or five on that scale because I believe in the possibility of god but I doubt it is interpreted correctly in any works that tried to explain the world in the far past. I let science do the explaining. Like many above me in this thread I dislike the possibility that stuff like pride and lust is bad as it is natural for people to feel such emotions.Why would god create us with such imperfections? I also dislike how some religions state humans have a soul while (all other) animals do not, as it does not feel ethical and it flat out does not make since as humans evolved from (other) animals.




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